LBC Approved a 125% Increase in Debt for LC?

General » General Board » Where have the professors gone.
http://saveourlc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=122


Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Nov 19, 2007, 2:06am

With all the turnover over the last couple of years at LC I am curious where the porfessor have taken new positions. Does anyone know?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Nov 19, 2007, 10:40am

Well, there are quite a few. I’m sure I’ll leave some out. I’ll list them as they come to mind. Any other old timers feel free to update my list.

Gary Mayfield: Mississippi College
Ruth Weinzettle, Northwestern State
Thomas Howell: William Jewell
Ted Barnes: Mary Hardin Baylor
Bill Townsend: Mary Hardin Baylor
Debra Hunter: Kentucky Wesleyan
Don Sprowl: Indiana Wesleyan
Cole Franklin: East Texas Baptist
Mike Trice: Florida Southern
Tammy Killian: Univ. of Montevallo
Fred Downing: Valdosta State
Curt Hamlett FUMC, Little Rock
Bill Shaw: Northwestern State
Bill Simpson: Retired
Bennett Strange: Retired
Lynda Taylor: Retired
Teresa Wanbaugh: Alabama Senior College (?)
Dennis Watson: Retired
Bob Howell: Retired??
Alan Hix: somewhere in Georgia
Bruce Cofer: Retired
Gina Crawford: Avoyelles Public Charter School
Lori Thames: Avoyelles Public Charter School
Doug Rogers: Angelo State/Avoyelles Public Charter School
Alan Mobley: Avoyelles Public Charter School
Gina Crawford: Avoyelles Public Charter School
Jim Crawford: Northwestern State
Gerry Heard: Retired
Connie Douglas: Retired
Cleamon Downs: Retired
Wayne McGraw: LSUA
Nancy Duke: Fired/somehwre in Florida
David Marcase: Fired

I’m sure I’ve left many off unintentionally. Also, this list doesn’t include any of the numerous staff members that left. Also, most of those that retired were, in essence, forced into it through Joe’s manipulation of the retiree health plan. New folks, I’ll simply ask you two questions: First, have you ever heard of another institution where approximately 50% of the faculty has left in the course of a two-year period? Second, If these scholars were so terrible, as Joe would no doubt tell you they were, why did such respected institutions snatch them up so quickly?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by highlandscholar on Nov 19, 2007, 11:10am

Commie,

It is only fitting that I get to say goodbye. I have learned in academic circles that the term “respected” functions much like it does in high school. it depends on which clique you hang with. I see some decent regional institutions and some Christian colleges who generally embrace the same atmospheric model of faith and learning integration that characterized the former LC. I also see that Baby Baylor made the list. (We joked with them once when we went to Mary Hardin for an academic meeting that we had come to reclaim the body of Judge Baylor and return it to its proper burial place in Waco. They were ridiculously unamused). By the way Commie, which one of these folks is equipped with the “loser” detector? Or should I say “looser” detector. Farewell.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by undergrace on Nov 19, 2007, 11:30am

Alan Hix – Shorter College
Carlton Winbery- retired
Jim Heath – ?
Tom Konvicka – haha…ok, somewhat of a joke…is he still teaching
meteorology?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Nov 19, 2007, 4:00pm

Quote:


It is only fitting that I get to say goodbye.

Goodbye Scott. Please don’t leave mad. I simply ask what I perceive to be very valid questions…questions I hope Joe has asked himself (although I doubt it) and questions I think you should ask yourself. Why did these people leave en mass? If they are such terrible teachers why is it they had no trouble getting new jobs?

You also question what is a “respected” institution. I don’t really think it matters what litmus test you apply. Enrollment? Fine. Endowment? Ok. Name recognition? Sure. U.S. New Rankings? Fine. Football teams? That’s ok too. Any one of these comparisons to these other institutions would probably place LC at the middle of the pack or lower. If you have a different litmus test for what makes a “respected” institution I’d be happy to hear it. It’s obvious that you don’t think very much of UMHB.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pilgrim on Nov 19, 2007, 9:11pm

Bill Simpson is teaching at Hinds Community College in Jackson, MS. Maradee Kern is with a school district in Texas, and Jim Heath has retired. Gerry Heard continues to function as an adjunct at LC.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by dinosaur on Nov 19, 2007, 10:12pm

Add Curt Hamlett to the list. I believe he went to a college in Alabama.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pilgrim on Nov 19, 2007, 11:05pm

No, Curt has gone to the First United Methodist Chuch in Little Rock, AR as milnister of music.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by thesoontobe6thyear on Nov 19, 2007, 11:14pm

I know that last year Ted Barnes was at Ouchita Baptist U. teaching art… did he go to UMHB?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Nov 19, 2007, 11:50pm

Yes, Ted Barnes is the Dean of the Division of Visual and Performing Arts at UMHB.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by astudent on Jan 4, 2008, 2:16am

Diann Norris/Brown is teaching at LSUA.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by honorless on Jan 9, 2008, 7:12pm

Quote:

Alan Hix – Shorter College

To be fair to the present administration, Dr. Hix went to Shorter because he was offered the chair position of one of (?) its religion and philosophy department(s). Shorter is his Alma Mater, and he told me personally it didn’t have anything to do with what was going on at LC at the time. I took him at his word.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by giraffe on Jan 10, 2008, 10:06am

Alice Carter is at Louisiana Tech.
David Carter is at Louisiana Delta Community College.
Julie Osland is at Wheeling Jesuit University.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by lbcdino on Feb 18, 2008, 9:20am

Where have some of the staff members gone? Anybody know anything about the following folks? I know some have been gone a long time, but most were here when the “trainwreck” was beginning.

Teri Dossman (Registrar’s Office)
Michelle Duke (Student Development)
Linda Hutson (Public Relations)
Dianne Little (Institutional Advancement)
Charles Neal (Information Technology)
Susan Poole (Business Office)
Jan Rachal (Football Secretary)
Judy Ready (Student Development)
Mary Beth Tassin (Registrar’s Office)


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pilgrim on Feb 25, 2008, 9:26pm

In spite of the contention by the LC administration that they are hiring new faculty members with credentials as strong as those who have departed, there is evidence to the contrary. For example there is one faculty member who has MM and DM degrees from a Covington Seminary. A Florida paper tells about the termination of a pastor with a degree from that school and says that it is a degree mill. Check:http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1852. Also see: http://journal.biblicalrecorder.org/br/ej/entry/integrity

Also, there is a faculty member with a professional degree that is designed for entry into a particular profession, but not for teaching in an academic program.

There are a couple of other instances, but these will do to illustrate what is happening.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by psuedointellectual on Feb 25, 2008, 10:50pm

scattered the faculty and the students 😦


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 27, 2008, 9:06am

Any word on whether any remaining old LC faculty might get booted or forced out at the end of this year? Any new hires announced?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Feb 27, 2008, 12:32pm

Quote:

In spite of the contention by the LC administration that they are hiring new faculty members with credentials as strong as those who have departed, there is evidence to the contrary. For example there is one faculty member who has MM and DM degrees from a Covington Seminary. A Florida paper tells about the termination of a pastor with a degree from that school and says that it is a degree mill. Check:http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1852. Also see:http://journal.biblicalrecorder.org/br/ej/entry/integrity  

Also, there is a faculty member with a professional degree that is designed for entry into a particular profession, but not for teaching in an academic program.

There are a couple of other instances, but these will do to illustrate what is happening.

 

Persoanlly, I am curious about the specifics of these instances. Each example really needs to be looked at individually to see if there qualifications are appropriate or not. While having the proper degrees is very important it is not the only thing that matters. Proper professional creditials can if they are tremendous make a difference. Al Held is a good example. He is a high school drop out who taught at Yale for years. I’m not saying we want HS drop outs teaching at LC all I am saying is that each instance should be looked at individually. Ouatchita for example is the top Southern school in our catagory this year and they have people in the Art Department with out the proper degrees. A lot of that is due to transition in that department so I am not saying that to attach Ouachita. All I am saying is that blanket statements are sometimes misleading.

Even if the assertion is true that there are some at LC without the best credientials that doesn’t negate that the vast majority of the faculty is very well qualified. There are what…30-35 new faculty over that last two years and we are picking at two? Those two may be an issue depends on several factors. But that still leaves many well qualified professors.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 27, 2008, 4:51pm

Hicks, Pilgrim states that this is only to illustrate the point of what is happening. Simply read the LC website and you will see that these new faculty are beginners in their profession. I would also suggest that you secure a copy of the faculty staff directory from, say 05 and make the comparison. It is stunning to see how large the drop in the number of PhD have been at LC.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by victor on Mar 2, 2008, 10:10pm

Looking at the list of places the former faculty have gone causes an interesting observation. Not one went to a major university, either public or private. None went to a prestigous small college. Avoyles Magnet school, NW State, Angelo State, Valdosta State, ETBU—not exactly top tier institutions. Some of them may have been revered by those who love the old LC, but if they were that outstanding, why didn’t any go to LSU, Harvard, Stanford, Tulane, etc? Hmmmm….


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Mar 2, 2008, 10:50pm

I’m beginning to think victor is our friend peggy…


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 2, 2008, 11:27pm

Victor, Victor, Victor…

The old Louisiana College was a teaching institution. The professors were gifted at teaching. Most of them taught at least four courses per semester. And many of them had spent their best years here. Thus, because of their age and their lack of emphasis on research, they weren’t attractive to major research universities. What made our professors great was their selfless commitment to the college. They worked for lower pay, and ultimately were forced to contend with the hideous creature that is fundamentalism.

We must give our professors credit for where their students gained entrance for graduate study.
Some examples in the final years include: Rice, Baylor, Harvard, LSU-Law and Medical Schools, Tulane Law School, La. Tech Department of History, Duke Divinity School, Wake Forest Divinity School, McAFee School of Theology, and so on. I think those are major schools, don’t you?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 2, 2008, 11:30pm

Most of us wouldn’t have dreamed of attending any of the “BIG SIX Seminaries,” or for crying out loud, Mid-America Theological Seminary. Eesh!


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Mar 3, 2008, 7:35am

Ah, Victor, why didn’t you address the issue of the lack of PhDs at LC? Wouldn’t it had been a better action to uplift the new LC in our eyes than denounce the old one? I would imagine that some of the former professors, if they had wanted to go to a prestigious school would have been blocked primarily due to having come from LC and the bad news coverage it has had in the last few years. Plus, do you really think that the current administration would have given a decent reference letter to any of the professors they kicked out?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by queenfish on Mar 3, 2008, 9:39am

Well, let’s see about the veracity of this statement that none of the former professors went to well-respected institutions. Case in point is Dr. Howell, who went on to William Jewell College, a very highly respected Baptist liberal arts college.

I wonder if any of the new faculty would be able to make such a jump, or perhaps a PhD or maybe a masters in something besides divinity is required.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Mar 3, 2008, 10:21am

Ok Victor, I’ll list some of the reasons I left LC and went to one of the schools you suggest is “not exactly top tier”.

1. It’s ranked higher than LC in all major categories
2. Better pay/benefits
3. A greater focus on “education”
4. Academic freedom
5. I still get to teach. I’ve worked at bigger state schools. Too much red tape and research requirements. I became a professor to teach.
6. I was “on the list”
7. I feared that if I stayed at LC much longer that my reputation would be tarnished making it more difficult to get another job later.
8. The school I’m currently at has approximately 75% of the faculty with terminal degrees. At last count I believe LC was at about 30% with terminal degrees.

Need I go on?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by newschool on Mar 3, 2008, 10:46am

8. The school I’m currently at has approximately 75% of the faculty with terminal degrees. At last count I believe LC was at about 30% with terminal degrees.

Where did you get the 30% for terminal degrees at LC?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Mar 3, 2008, 11:07am

Sorry…my bad. According to the LC website, 40 of 71 faculty members have doctoral degrees…a whopping 56.33%. Still not an impressive number.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Mar 3, 2008, 11:15am

Note, that to get that figure you have to include everything from PhD to EdD to JD and other variations of that sort. Anyone know the numbers of doctoral degrees versus Masters from, say, 2005?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Mar 3, 2008, 11:45am

When Joe took over as president in January of 2005, there were 79 faculty members at LC. 52 of those had doctoral degrees. That’s 65.82% of the faculty. This does not include terminal degrees such as MFA (theatre and art). But neither does the 56.33% of those at LC now include those with the MFA. In short, from January 2005 to the present, LC has seen nearly a 10% (9.49%) reduction in the percentage of faculty members holding a doctoral degree.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 3, 2008, 12:30pm

I was looking at this last week but hadn’t had a chance to post yet.

The figures I came up with when looking were 56% Doctorates. If you count the MFA which is a terminal degree and counted by most schools then it moves to 60%. In the fact books it lists Doctorates not terminal degrees so I don’t know in what categories they have traditionally listed the MFA. But, here are the historical numbers for Doctorates (which should include MFA’s but I ‘m not sure it does):

06-07 60%
04-05 67%
03-04 60%
02-03 64%
01-02 69%
00-01 66%
99-00 71%

So, our current numbers are on the low side of recent history but not horribly out of step. That said, I do believe they are too low but from the numbers I see they have been too low previously as well. This is certainly an area which needs improvement. We do have at least one well qualified person who is ABD.

Ultimately, people are correct that there is still need of improvement in this area but the extent (as demonstrated by the 30% post) is being exaggerated. There were good faculty before and there were poor faculty before and that situation still exists. It likely always will. The real difference is ideological more than quality. Students got a solid education before and are getting a solid education now. Both, sides can give examples if where that isn’t/ wasn’t true but overall I think it is true. The real differences are in the nuances of that education and the underlying philosophy of education.

Mid-America Theological Seminary is a fine institution but is ideologically different than some other schools. The ideology is the difference not the quality.

Bob Jones University for example gives a good education and sends students on to some of the best graduate schools. I know a young woman who went from BJU to Columbia Law. But, I don’t think any of us want LC to be like BJU. Not because they give a poor education but because they have a different ideology. So, we can argue back and forth about the quality. But, that isn’t the real difference.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Mar 3, 2008, 2:31pm

Quote:

But, I don’t think any of us want LC to be like BJU.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. See if you can get a tape of Joe’s inauguration where it was stated many times during various festivities that we don’t want LC to be like other schools with a Christian heritage like Harvard, Princeton, or Duke (yes those were mentioned by name). I tuly believe that Joe and Co. would rather LC be like BJU than Princeton or Duke. To quote David Hankins in 2004 “I’d rather see LC die that have it continue the way it is.”


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Mar 3, 2008, 3:05pm

It’s refreshing to see everyone still speak out in support of the old faculty.

Haha no one mentioned what prestigious university Joe got HIS EdD from…

That being said, Victor, feel free to come back and make a fool of yourself any time you want. I figured that your camp would have figured out by now not to “poke the bear…”


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 3, 2008, 3:55pm

Quote:

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. See if you can get a tape of Joe’s inauguration where it was stated many times during various festivities that we don’t want LC to be like other schools with a Christian heritage like Harvard, Princeton, or Duke (yes those were mentioned by name). I tuly believe that Joe and Co. would rather LC be like BJU than Princeton or Duke. To quote David Hankins in 2004 “I’d rather see LC die that have it continue the way it is.

I haven’t seen these quotes and I don’t know who Hankins is, though I’m guessing I should. But, these quotes are a far cry from saying they want LC to be another BJU. I would agree that I don’t want LC to be another Harvard, Princeton or Duke. They are great schools but they have abandoned their distinctively christian roots. Are you saying you would like to see LC abandon their distinctively Christian roots? I doubt it. But at the same time making the Duke or BJU dichotomy is kind of like saying I would rather eat mud than gravel. The truth is I really don’t want to eat either but if I were forced to I’d eat mud… but in reality it is a statement which really doesn’t mean anything. I want to eat shrimp or steak or something that tastes good. I don’t want LC to be a BJU or a Harvard. I want it to be a distinctively Christian school (what Liftin would call a systemic Chistian college) with excellent academics.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by commie on Mar 3, 2008, 9:05pm

David Hankins is the Executive Director of the LBC and pulls most of Joe’s strings. See if you can get anyone to tell you about Joe’s Monday morning meetings with Hankins.

I absolutely don’t want LC or any other school to abandon its Christian heritage. I think that Baptist colleges and universities serve an extremely important role in the realm of higher education (that’s why I’ve felt called to teach at three different ones). The problem, as I see it, is that there are two extremes. On one end you have schools like Princeton or Duke or even Centenary that are excellent academically, but have truly abandoned any of their Christian identity. They are Christian in name only. On the other end of the spectrum you have LC which has placed Baptist (notice, not Christian, but “Baptist”) credalism above anything else. Education seems to be an afterthought. If we can teach them something, that’s ok, but what we REALLY need to do is make sure they bow to the Baptist fundamentalist ideologies. Why can’t we FIRST educate students honestly and rigorously while demonstrating Christian love and faith to the students. Hicks, I believe that we both would agree on this principle, but I’m not sure Joe and the other powers that be would agree with this in their heart of hearts. They would say they do, but believe me, I’ve heard Joe say the politically expedient thing so many times, it’s really hard to believe anything he has to say. I’ve seen him tell someone how much he loved them while stabbing them in the back. Just keep that in mind.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by eroark on Mar 3, 2008, 9:58pm

06-07 60%
04-05 67%
03-04 60%
02-03 64%
01-02 69%
00-01 66%
99-00 71%

What about the years 05-06 and the current schoolyear of 07-08?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by victor on Mar 3, 2008, 10:18pm

I see that I succeeded in my post about the departed faculty. The site has lacked passionate dialog lately and I thought I’d see if I could generate some. Obviously some of you interpreted some things into my post which were not there. I have a fairly good idea of the credentials of the new faculty and I did not say that everything at LC is perfect these days.

Let me be fair to some of the former faculty by recognizing that they went to fairly good colleges but it is also true that 4-5 are in high schools and two at community colleges. I don’t need anyone to tell me that LC is primarily a teaching institution and that faculty from LC would not likely get jobs at research institutions. Apparently my point was either overlooked or not understood. My point was that if the former faculty were as outstanding as thought by some who post here that they should have been able to get jobs at prestigious institutions. There are prestigious institutions that are primarily teaching oriented.

And just because someone didn’t get my point doesn’t mean that I am a “fool”. But I guess I’d rather be a fool than malicious and/or ignorant. I am appalled at the arrogance of some 22 year olds who seem to think they are experts on higher education when their only exposure to it was at LC.

It is also interesting to know that there is a bear on this site, and it obviously is not a teddy bear. Don’t be misled by the fact that I don’t write long messages that cover everything some of you seem to think I need to defend. Some of us have other things to do and I probably won’t continue this for long because I usually don’t get involved in conversations with people who think they have all the answers. It is also obvious that most who regularly visit this site are not open to any ideas other than those taught by the former faculty who they revere so highly. Any view other than conservative is acceptable, right? And it is OK to be dogmatic as long as you are not dogmatic about conservative Christian views, right?

I’ve already spent more time on this than I should so that’s all for now.

:-/


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Mar 4, 2008, 4:15am

“Outstanding” means more than going to Harvard. To say that people like Dean Thames, Drs. Duke, Douglas, Peevy, Osbourne, Heath, Downing, and others weren’t great people because they didn’t go off to “prestigious institutions” is like saying that Jesus wasn’t a great man because he didn’t rule any countries or hold any powerful political positions. I don’t expect you people to know anything about the real Jesus, though, just the Jesus you’ve contrived to suit your ideals.

For what it’s worth, I thought your question was well-answered on this thread. I think that you just do not like to concede defeat.

It’s not because we “didn’t get your point” that you’re a fool, but I won’t enumerate the other reasons. Assuming you are Peggy, there are plenty. Assuming you’re not, your faulty logic implies there are plenty.

I think it’s funny that you would imply that I’m malicious or ignorant. I think that trying to expel someone the week before they graduate exemplifies maliciousness. I think that constant snide remarks about Dean to SGA is malicious. There’s not enough space to address your ignorance. (You’re probably going to claim that you’re not Peggy Pack. As far as I’m concerned, you’ve endorsed her, and ergo her iniquities.)

Some 22 year olds are arrogant? 22 is a specific number. Were you talking about me, Royer, or eroark? Those are the only 22 year olds on this thread that I can think of off the top of my head. Oasis and Honorless are 23, but I’m assuming that 22 is exactly the age you were targeting. Call me crazy, but I’ll bet you’re talking about me. I don’t really care if you think I’m arrogant. Once you found out I was a “liberal” you wrote me off and never really tried to get to know me.

I never claimed to know that much about higher education. I am an expert on being a student, though, since I am one, and I’ll bet it’s been a long time for you. You can’t possibly know what it’s like to be a college student in this day and age. A big part, nay, the crucial factor in higher education seems to be how well you reach the students. Policing their internet activity and forcing them to sit through altar calls every Thursday is not effective student relations. That much, any idiot could tell you.

It is arrogant to assume that you understand someone’s ideology from what you read on an internet message board. (Before you even try to assert that that’s what I’m doing: you have my message board posts as a reference–and probably my facebook, but I have the various and egregious misdeeds committed by this administration.)

You have no idea what I believe. You don’t know what all those professors that you got rid of believed either. Just because Dr. Heath believed “sex is good”and that there probably wasn’t a talking snake doesn’t mean that he didn’t believe that Jesus was the Christ. Just because you’re perpetually stuck in Stage 3 of Fowler’s Stages of Faith doesn’t mean that Drs. Douglas and Downing are heretical for teaching them. Just because someone’s daughter decided she was a lesbian while she was in London doesn’t mean that God doesn’t want us to explore and learn more about the beautiful world that He created for us.

I am a moderate conservative, or a conservative moderate, or however you want to say it. I don’t believe in gay marriage (because marriage is the responsibility of the church) or abortion, to touch on current issues. For further reference as to what I believe, check the Nicene creed. Google it if you don’t know what it is. Even though I’ve since changed my mind, I very much didn’t agree with what Dr. Heath taught me freshman year, but he had the fruit of the spirit–something the current administration lacks–and as I grew to respect him as a Christian I began to open my mind to some of his ideas. I am slow to make decisions about what I believe. I like to analyze every detail before I come to make a decision because I believe real Christianity (not the bastardization that you people parade) can stand up to the scrutiny, but then again, I went to the Old LC, and they taught me to think about things like that.

I’ll be out of town for a week. You can come back and leave snide remarks if you want; I don’t care. I’m even expecting it.

For the rest of saveourlc: Hubby and I are going to Bourbon Street for the first time. 😀


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by chrischillin on Mar 4, 2008, 9:13am

I remember reading Hankins’ comments in which he specifically named Duke…and other places that are far less important. 😉

Duke is a mixed bag, to say the least, but with a very active congregation at Duke Chapel, and a Divinity School that will send out over 150 graduates each year into ministry and theological education, then it’s not entirely accurate to claim the school has abandoned its Christian roots.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Mar 4, 2008, 9:27am

Bravo to Big League in dealing with Victor! Victor you are only addressing your own agenda and not looking at the other factors in this thread. Some of the former faculty we know left during the summer; anyone familiar with the education profession knows that most of the jobs are already filled during this time. You downplay the Magnet school. Why not praise it for the creativity that has been mentioned in the press and the fact that some college professionals are trying to develop future honors students for college. (But then LC doesn’t have an Honors Program, does it?). And I still go back to one of my own previous statements. How could faculty leaving a college with such a bad reputation in press outside the State get a job at a “prestigious” school? And did these same faculty unknowingly get bad references from this administration when other schools made inquiries? Perhaps those issues should be addressed now in a mature manner.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by eagle on Mar 4, 2008, 9:50am

Quote:

I see that I succeeded in my post about the departed faculty. The site has lacked passionate dialog lately and I thought I’d see if I could generate some. Obviously some of you interpreted some things into my post which were not there. I have a fairly good idea of the credentials of the new faculty and I did not say that everything at LC is perfect these days.  

Let me be fair to some of the former faculty by recognizing that they went to fairly good colleges but it is also true that 4-5 are in high schools and two at community colleges. I don’t need anyone to tell me that LC is primarily a teaching institution and that faculty from LC would not likely get jobs at research institutions. Apparently my point was either overlooked or not understood. My point was that if the former faculty were as outstanding as thought by some who post here that they should have been able to get jobs at prestigious institutions. There are prestigious institutions that are primarily teaching oriented.

And just because someone didn’t get my point doesn’t mean that I am a “fool”. But I guess I’d rather be a fool than malicious and/or ignorant. I am appalled at the arrogance of some 22 year olds who seem to think they are experts on higher education when their only exposure to it was at LC.

It is also interesting to know that there is a bear on this site, and it obviously is not a teddy bear. Don’t be misled by the fact that I don’t write long messages that cover everything some of you seem to think I need to defend. Some of us have other things to do and I probably won’t continue this for long because I usually don’t get involved in conversations with people who think they have all the answers. It is also obvious that most who regularly visit this site are not open to any ideas other than those taught by the former faculty who they revere so highly. Any view other than conservative is acceptable, right? And it is OK to be dogmatic as long as you are not dogmatic about conservative Christian views, right?

I’ve already spent more time on this than I should so that’s all for now.

:-/

 


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by eagle on Mar 4, 2008, 9:53am

Quote:

I see that I succeeded in my post about the departed faculty. The site has lacked passionate dialog lately and I thought I’d see if I could generate some. Obviously some of you interpreted some things into my post which were not there. I have a fairly good idea of the credentials of the new faculty and I did not say that everything at LC is perfect these days.  

Let me be fair to some of the former faculty by recognizing that they went to fairly good colleges but it is also true that 4-5 are in high schools and two at community colleges. I don’t need anyone to tell me that LC is primarily a teaching institution and that faculty from LC would not likely get jobs at research institutions. Apparently my point was either overlooked or not understood. My point was that if the former faculty were as outstanding as thought by some who post here that they should have been able to get jobs at prestigious institutions. There are prestigious institutions that are primarily teaching oriented.

And just because someone didn’t get my point doesn’t mean that I am a “fool”. But I guess I’d rather be a fool than malicious and/or ignorant. I am appalled at the arrogance of some 22 year olds who seem to think they are experts on higher education when their only exposure to it was at LC.

It is also interesting to know that there is a bear on this site, and it obviously is not a teddy bear. Don’t be misled by the fact that I don’t write long messages that cover everything some of you seem to think I need to defend. Some of us have other things to do and I probably won’t continue this for long because I usually don’t get involved in conversations with people who think they have all the answers. It is also obvious that most who regularly visit this site are not open to any ideas other than those taught by the former faculty who they revere so highly. Any view other than conservative is acceptable, right? And it is OK to be dogmatic as long as you are not dogmatic about conservative Christian views, right?

I’ve already spent more time on this than I should so that’s all for now.

:-/

 


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by eagle on Mar 4, 2008, 9:56am

Victor,
In response to your comment that “It is also obvious that most who regularly visit this site are not open to any ideas other than those taught by the former faculty who they revere so highly” note that many of us visit this site on a regular basis but choose not to post comments. Many of us have spoken with our pocketbooks. Take a look at contributions to LC, if accurate records are available for review.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 4, 2008, 10:19am

Quote:

06-07 60%
04-05 67%
03-04 60%
02-03 64%
01-02 69%
00-01 66%
99-00 71% 

What about the years 05-06 and the current schoolyear of 07-08?

 

05-06 is not in the fact book. I don’t know why. I gave the numbers for 097-08 in the paragraph. They are 56% Doctorates. 60% if MFA’s are counted as they should be though it is my understand that LC has never counted the MFA in this category.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 4, 2008, 10:42am

Quote:

The problem, as I see it, is that there are two extremes. On one end you have schools like Princeton or Duke or even Centenary that are excellent academically, but have truly abandoned any of their Christian identity. They are Christian in name only. On the other end of the spectrum you have LC which has placed Baptist (notice, not Christian, but “Baptist”) credalism above anything else. Education seems to be an afterthought. If we can teach them something, that’s ok, but what we REALLY need to do is make sure they bow to the Baptist fundamentalist ideologies.

A couple of thoughts here. I would argue that there are many nuances within those extremes you state. LC is a far cry different than Bob Jones University. What you are calling Baptist Fundamentalism would not meet the test of most Baptist Fundamentalists. I do agree that LC is heavily influenced by Baptist Creedalism. Some Baptists would instantly reject that I’m not one of them. But, while there is a heavy influence I don’t see that as trumping Christian Creedalism. In the art department at least we have a good bit of variety. Two baptists, one attends Kingsville the other Emanuel, the third faculty member is not baptist leans Lutheran or Presbyterian and our main adjunct is Catholic. But, I think we all understand that this is a Baptist school and will be heavily influenced by that. I don’ t think that it is wrong for a school like Calvin to push a reformed position and I don’t think it is wrong for a school like LC to push a baptist position. This isn’t a non-denominational school. It is associated with a denomination so it is reasonable that it pushes that denominational perspective.

Quote:

Why can’t we FIRST educate students honestly and rigorously while demonstrating Christian love and faith to the students.

I believe most of us…at least the professors I deal with… are seeking to educate students honestly and rigorously. Honestly, in the Art department the biggest complaint we get from students is our rigor. And, we do seek to demonstrate Christian love and faith to our students. But, in religion courses or chapel I don’t see a problem with a certain perspective being pushed. It isn’t the only perspective. And, as I’ve said before I’m not very reformed in my thinking so I disagree with the positions that some others take. But, I respect the reformed position and have never felt alienated because I don’t hold to it.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 4, 2008, 10:57am

Bigleague,

Maybe I should leave this alone as I don’t know you and you don’t know me. But, I addressed Victor about this on another thread and so I’ll bring it up here as well.

We need to strive to keep a more cordial lovign tone. Even if you have been spitefully persecuted by someone it is still the Christian response to treat them in Love. Victors failure to behave respectully does not free us from our responsibility to respond lovingly.

My first response to this board before I started posting was to dismiss it because of its spiteful tone. The only thing that brought me on to this board was that the spiteful tone was directed at me by those who don’t know me claiming knowledge which was given to them by others who don’t know me.

Maybe I should leave well enough alone. It may be better for me to not even and try to engage on this board. I certainly have more than enough work to do (honestly, I should be doining it now rather than writing this post). But, at the same time if I’m going to post here I want to try and develop as Christ honoring a dialog as possible. I hope to be somewhat of a bridge builder…if that is possible. You have to realize that just as Victors tone closed your mind to his perspective your tone likely closed his mind to yours.

Francis Schaeffer wrote about the love that Christians show one to another being the “Final Appologetic” in other words ultimately it is that love which will attract the world. But, it is each persons responsibility to show that love despite the others failure.

On this board I have often seem both sides fail at this. I hope that can change.

Rondall


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 4, 2008, 11:00am

Victor, I think it is very interesting that you suggest that none of us know anything about higher education. *That’s funny since none of the LC administrators has any course work in higher ed. The president is a well qualified high school principal. Sumrall has good experience. Pack is a widely respected psychologist. Quarrels is a fine conservative scholar. Tim Johnson is a Baptist preacher. But none, not one member of the adminsitration, has any course work/degree in higher education administration.

The former administration included an Ed.D., a Ph.D., and an M.A. in Higher Education Administration. They were trained to run a college. One had been the dean of a law school. This new crew may mean well, but they ain’t cuttin’ it.

Just the facts, Victor…


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on Mar 4, 2008, 11:23am

Quote:


The former administration included an Ed.D., a Ph.D., and an M.A. in Higher Education Administration. They were trained to run a college. One had been the dean of a law school. This new crew may mean well, but they ain’t cuttin’ it. 

Just the facts, Victor…

 

I have to say that the arguement that they are not qualified because they do not have course work is a non sequitur. It is not uncommon for adminstrators to come out of academica and have no official training in higher ed administration. For example Harvards President is a Historian, Ouachita’s is a Pastor. They may or may not be doing the job well but this arguement misses the point.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 4, 2008, 11:54am

Hicks, please note that I was responding to Victor’s insult. And yes, my point is valid. The administration’s gross mismanagement is evidence of their lack of understanding of the issues of higher ed law, finance, student development, etc.

Your point about the other schools is a good one, but I’m sure those schools have trained administrators in their cabinets. Those folks aren’t “winging it.” LC has no one with higher ed background in the administration.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by victor on Mar 5, 2008, 10:52pm

none of us know anything about higher education.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by victor on Mar 5, 2008, 11:06pm

Whoops! I clicked the wrong key. After being appropriately reprimanded by hicks, I will try to be more diplomatic, even when others make many and varied assumptions about me just because I made comments about where the former faculty went that some on this site found offensive. I was going to suggest that I didn’t say that no one on this site knows anything about higher education but It is true that some need to broaden their knowledge before making definitive statements about higher ed. I hesitate to post anything else because some tend to presume many things about me, even though they don’t know me. I don’t have much time so I will address just one point made by abovethefray. Without commenting on the effectiveness of the various administrators at LC, I will tell you that your comments about none of them having course work in higher ed is irrelevant. Nationally, only a relatively small percentage of college administrators have academic training in higher ed. I will see if I can find some specific information in a few days and, if I can, I will post it.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 6, 2008, 10:06am

Victor:

I guess my point is irrelevant because it is accurate. *Not one administrator at LC has any course work, i.e., professional academic training in higher ed. So I guess this is why the college is being run as if it were a church or a high school.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Mar 6, 2008, 10:51am

Let us also remember that along with the degrees, the old administration exhibited great professionalism with the students and faculty and people like Dean Thames was there at all hours dealing with sometimes near impossible situations to keep the students on the right track.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 6, 2008, 10:57am

Yeah, and she holds an M.A. in Student Personnel Services, with an emphasis in counseling. What’s the current dean’s credentials?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by victor on Mar 7, 2008, 10:00pm

Regarding abovethefray’s declarations about none of the current LC administrators having formal training in higher education, and my statement that that lack of specific training is irrelevant because most college administrators do not hold the credentials touted by abovethefray, I present the following facts. Tonight I reviewed current ads for about 20 college presidencies and nearly 50 for academic VP’s or Provosts. Of the 70, one (1) asked for academic training in higher ed. If anyone wants to check this out, you may do so at higheredjobs.com

There might be some value in this site if we could deal with facts, or opinions substantiable by facts but so often that does not seem to be of interest to some. I will continue to dialog if I see that reasonable discussions are possible, but like some others, if such does not occur, I will disappear. I know that I got off to a bad start with some of you with my sarcasm but it is challenging to write a serious response to an absurd or irrational statement or claim. Even so, I will resist that temptation.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 7, 2008, 11:01pm

So, a docorate in higher ed is useless?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 7, 2008, 11:15pm

Research universities often opt for scholars. But the trend among liberal arts colleges is to go with higher ed folks. For example, LC’s three closest competitors, Belhaven, Millsaps, and MC all have chiefs with higher ed backgrounds.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by abovethefray on Mar 7, 2008, 11:16pm

I think Centenary’s chief is also a higher ed person.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Mar 13, 2008, 1:52am

In response to hicks:

I think being kind isn’t necessarily called for all the time. Jesus upended tables, compared the pharisees to whited sepulchers and broods of vipers when he was pissed. I’d love to see what he’d have to say to this current administration. Furthermore, I think my comments were inside the necessary bounds. The administration, on the other hand, always says nice things to my face, right before they go pull some ridiculous, malicious stunt.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by expatriot on Mar 15, 2008, 3:30pm

It has been a while since I have been to the site, but in browsing, I came across the ridiculus statement that “old LC” faculty must not have been very impressive because they had not gone to Harvard or Yale (before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, that was hyperbole).

To begin with, I echo Commie’s list of reasons. I need not defend any of my former colleagues, but many of these faculty had invested most of their lives in central Louisiana and were not inclined to pick up and move near the end of their careers. In many ways, I envy the fact that they were able to remain close to friends, attend the same church and generally continue their lives, putting the fiasco of that became of LC behind them.

Being younger, my family and I chose to move to Florida. Like Commie, I enjoy teaching and working with students individually. So I looked for schools that put emphasis on teaching excellence, schools like what LC use to be. These schools are not household names, but that hardly diminishes their quality. I am currently teaching at a school that U.S. News ranks #5 in Southern baccalaureate colleges. For those counting, that is 32 spots higher than my previous employer. As an aside, persons applying for teaching positions who have Ph.D.s (I would assume Ed.Ds as well) from Nova Southeastern on their vita are not considered (In deference to full disclosure, there are some on faculty who got their phds there before the school raised its standards). When I tell my colleagues that my previous employer hired a president with such credentials, they respond in brief disbelief, then laughter.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by lbcdino on Apr 24, 2008, 7:53am

Many of you may already know this, but there are more faculty and staff leaving LC this year.

– Dr. Sumrall (VP Academic Affairs) – going to Mississippi, but we already knew he was leaving
– Katerina Zaitseva (music dept) – going to Washington D.C. area
– Chris Kelly (art dept) – not sure where he is going
– Jim Majors (business dept) – going to work for one of his clients
– Alan Bandy (religion dept) – going to Southeastern Baptist seminary
– Andrea McKenzie (institutional research) – going to FBC in Lafayette, Louisiana

It seems the exodus continues. This time quite a few of Joe’s hires are leaving. I guess life at LC is not as lovely as they make it out to be. Oh well, the administration can take some of the salary money that will be available and put it toward the new football stadium.

Of course they would NEVER do that!!!


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Apr 24, 2008, 9:20am

Interesting information; especially in light of the fact that Kelly, Bandy and McKenzie I believe have only been there for one year. Are people starting to see the writing on the wall that fast? Makes you wonder….And wasn’t Majors a huge supporter of the administration? There are many questions to all these people leaving.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by chris on Apr 24, 2008, 11:19am

Wow, I have finally made the cut. I have been mentioned on the infamous saveourlc. I guess I can retire from higher ed altogether. I have been watching the board this year, and have seen this board which may have had the best intentions, morph into a group waiting for LC to fail.

Jericho: My reasons for leaving are based on family concerns. Not on any handwriting (you know the new hires were illiterate anyway). I have worked with a fine bunch of new professors who I will miss.

Chris Kelly
One of the new “loser faculty members”


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Apr 24, 2008, 1:32pm

Yes, yes I want LC to fail, with all my heart, because then, something great would happen: MY DEGREE WOULD BECOME WORTHLESS. Wouldn’t that be grand?

We don’t want LC to fail. Seeing the administration fail… that’s another story. Only when their time is up will there be a possibility of change. Change, NOT failure, is what we want for LC. (No, I didn’t steal that from one of Obama’s speeches…)

kinda sounds like you were doing the same to this board that you accuse us of doing: lurking, waiting for a slip up so you could write a brief tirade then leave

lbcdino didn’t say one thing that could construed as negative. Jericho’s speculation I’m sure implied nothing more than mere ignorance of the situation, something I think that few new hires can help.

It took you three and a half hours to respond to a mere mention of your name? Don’t you have a job you’re supposed to be doing, not hanging around on saveourlc waiting for an excuse to have a hissy?

If you still think that we’ve slandered you in some way, you should take a lesson from the old professors at LC. There’s a bunch that knew how to graciously handle unfair criticism and slander and other snubs like coming to work to find all the locks changed on their office.

Well, you’ve gotten what you wanted. You’ve been mentioned, even if any notoriety you’ve just achieved has been self-induced.

How are you new hires finding this board, anyway? It’s been years since someone’s put up signs on campus. We must be more than just some inconsequential bunch of malcontents if you guys are talking about us on campus.

Welcome to the board.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by dinosaur on Apr 24, 2008, 3:02pm

Of course, since the Board of Trustees meet in secret, we don’t know what they decide only what they release. It is interesting to note that the report from Amy Robertson in THE BAPTIST MESSAGE does not mention anyone being promoted and no one was granted tenure. Promotion and tenure are the province of the Board and cannot be granted by any individual. Also no Professor Emeritus was named either.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by expatriot on May 16, 2008, 1:38pm

Dinosaur, you know it takes six years before you can be considered for tenure. Anyone who started in 2001-2002 has long since left. Besides, what tenure. You either a friend or not.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by dinosaur on May 16, 2008, 7:00pm

Faculty coming from another instituion with tenure can be granted up to three years of credit toward tenure. Also, it is possible that a scholar can be hired with tenure. But it is also true that by the current definition of tenure at LC, it means nothing at all. But going back to the Board meeting, it seems that someone should have been promoted such as Debrah Richardson who completed her PH.D.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pilgrim on May 16, 2008, 7:05pm

The reason there were no tenure/promotion announcements is that tenure no longer exists. The Faculty Handbook has been allowed to lapse and, with it, all policies having to do with tenure and promotion processes. The Faculty Committee structure also is a joke. There is no Faculty Council, or any other process by which the faculty can participate in the governance of the institution. The administration used its lie that excessive faculty governance was the cause of SACS probation to eliminate most vestiges of faculty governance. It remains to be seen what SACS will say or do about this.

Also disappearing with the Faculty Handbook was any meaningful definition of academic freedom. All that exists now is the absurd bifurcated definition, with institution academic freedom trumping the academic freedom of the faculty. It also will be interesting to see what SACS will do or say about this. None of the new faculty are heard protesting this vacuum, but then, they new little about academic freedom before thay joined LC.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on May 16, 2008, 8:11pm

May 16, 2008, 7:05pm, pilgrim wrote:

The reason there were no tenure/promotion announcements is that tenure no longer exists. The Faculty Handbook has been allowed to lapse and, with it, all policies having to do with tenure and promotion processes.

This isn’t correct. I have a copy of the handbook. Admittedly, it isn’t fully complete so your criticism is not fully without base. But, the policies for tenure and promotion are defined. It is true that there was no tenure or promotion granted. As another poster pointed out, there weren’t any faculty eligible for tenure and I don’t know of any degrees finished this year making professors eligible for promotion. I believe Pete Richardson finished her degree last year. There were some promotions last year.

Quote:

The administration used its lie that excessive faculty governance was the cause of SACS probation to eliminate most vestiges of faculty governance.

I don’t think I have ever heard the administration state that this was was the reason for the probation. I have heard them say that excessive faculty governance was an issue.

Quote:

Also disappearing with the Faculty Handbook was any meaningful definition of academic freedom. All that exists now is the absurd bifurcated definition, with institution academic freedom trumping the academic freedom of the faculty.

I’d have to go back and look at this again. I don’t remember the details off the top of my head. I will say though that I believe that in an institution such as LC to a degree the institution’s academic freedom does trump that of the faculty. The faculties freedom should be restricted by the focus of the institution.

All that said, so far I have had no restrictions on my academic freedom.

Quote:

None of the new faculty are heard protesting this vacuum, but then, they new little about academic freedom before thay joined LC.

I would be curious to hear you expound upon this seemingly pejorative remark.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bystander on May 16, 2008, 9:02pm

Would some kind soul put the statement from the SACS report on the site to give hicks a clue. The board was the main reason for the probation. Also, any word on the pending legal action by the professors.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by dinosaur on May 18, 2008, 7:07pm

The Board of Trustees was the only reason for the SACS’ s sanctions. Bob Agee was brought in, at a high price, to instruct the Board in how they could do what they wanted to do and not violate the published documents. And, Hicks, what you believe about Richardson is incorrect; she got her Ph.D. in August and the LC Academic year ends in July.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on May 18, 2008, 10:13pm

Quote:

The Board of Trustees was the only reason for the SACS’ s sanctions.

I am not contending this point. It was before my time and I have no knowledge about it.

Quote:

And, Hicks, what you believe about Richardson is incorrect; she got her Ph.D. in August and the LC Academic year ends in July.

The contracts for last year began 10 days after her graduation on August 10th.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bystander on May 21, 2008, 8:39pm

Hicks,
You, and the other new hires say that what was done before you is none of your concern. Are you saying because you didn’t witness it, it isn’t a fact, or are you saying that since it happended before you came (even though it was corrupt) you are willing to live with it. I would have a hard time working in a place with such a reputation for doing harm to people.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by hicks on May 22, 2008, 10:46am

May 21, 2008, 8:39pm, bystander wrote:

Hicks,
You, and the other new hires say that what was done before you is none of your concern. Are you saying because you didn’t witness it, it isn’t a fact, or are you saying that since it happended before you came (even though it was corrupt) you are willing to live with it. I would have a hard time working in a place with such a reputation for doing harm to people.

Bystander,

That is a complete misrepresentation of my position. My position is that there are three LC’s not two as commonly put forward. I believe there was an Old LC, a Transitional LC and the Current LC.

I believe that while the old LC had a respectable (not stellar as is sometimes stated) academic reputation there were elements within the college which needed to change to bring the school more in-line with the prevailing positions of its sponsoring organization.

The Transitional LC was only around for a couple of years. During that time it seems that not every thing was handled correctly in terms of pushing the change forward. If those mistakes were malicious or unintentional is clearly still a matter of debate. My personal feeling is that most was unintentional, but that there were mistakes in judgment and it may well be that when emotions were high that those emotions got the better of persons on both sides. Also, it seems that when the lines were drawn there were individuals who were casualties more because the side of the line they chose than any other reason. It seems to me that that is both bad and good. It is largely unfair to those individuals. But, at the same time if they were not in agreement with the direction of the school it was better for them to move on.

Finally, there is the Current LC. I believe this started in the Fall of 07. The vast majority of the changes have already been implemented and now the current faculty and staff need to be less concerned with what happened before than where we are going now. There is no doubt that the school’s reputation took a hit in academic circles, in the local perception as well as in some areas of its constituency. Also, while some departments are improved, others are weakened. We need to deal with such issues. Further, while the school is 100+ years old we are in some ways a new institution and we need to be more intentional about defining both who we are and the direction we wish to head. The Current LC is far from perfect but I do believe we can head in the right direction and have some genuine opportunities for significant accomplishment. It is not a bastion of incompetence and false Christianity as commonly portrayed on these boards.

While things with which I don’t agree probably happened and I am sure will continue to happen (as they would with any institution), I can not do anything about what happened in the past. Further, I need to understand my current role and not become overly bothered when everything isn’t done exactly as I would do it. I do, however, need to work diligently at improving my department and in helping the college as a whole, at least where it is within my power, to proceed in the best possible direction.

I hope that clarifies my position.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by newschool on Jan 30, 2010, 9:33am

I think it is time to revisit this post. Where have all the professors who were hired in the last few years gone? Why did they leave?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Jan 30, 2010, 4:36pm

Nine positions? And there will be others? Oh, Lord, what’s caused the Exodus now? Or is this the latest purge among the newest faculty? Anyone out there with answers?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Jan 30, 2010, 11:13pm

By the way, notice in the advertisements how the college is stressing “doctorally qualified”. Is this in preparation of a SACS visit? Just a question.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Jan 31, 2010, 10:18pm

Do we know who’s retiring or who may have not had their contracts renewed? Are some faculty leaving for other positions?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 2, 2010, 1:15pm

Which professors are you referring to? I know I’d be interested in knowing about any shakeups in any departments?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 2, 2010, 1:18pm

Actually, I wonder what SACS will think about such a high number of faculty that have left (forced out) since the last SACS review? It is sad to think about new faculty that might have been pushed out with no one there to record their case and support them. We may never know the stories that are being written on that campus these days.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by newschool on Feb 2, 2010, 7:33pm

Here are faculty who have left or are leaving this academic year.

Alan O’Dell- Education Division Chair
Jason Meyer- Dean of Chapel, left after fall 09
Don Shipley Jr.- Former Humanities Division Chair, left after fall 09
Barbara Travers- English
Michael Travers- VPAA

also
Chuck Quarles- Stepped down from Division Chair but is still VP


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 2, 2010, 8:46pm

The Travers are leaving? WHAT HAPPENED? And I thought that Shipley was a strong member of the new team! WOW!! Who is head of Humanities now? What is the story you’re hearing?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by gomer on Feb 3, 2010, 10:19am

One of the downsides to such a good school as LC is that your faculty become VERY marketable. Other schools will jump through major hoops to land such folks. Good luck to the faculty/staff who are moving on!


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 3, 2010, 12:27pm

Which of these professors, then, are moving on to these great new job opportunities?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by beyond on Feb 3, 2010, 5:11pm

Can I ask what it is about LC that makes it’s faculty “VERY” marketable? Perhaps I’m missing something, but the logic would follow that if LC were such a “good school ” the faculty would stay. Or conversely, if the faculty were of such high value to LC they would do all they could to keep them. People with really good jobs tend to stay in them so I’m confused.
Can you elaborate on what constitutes, or would constitute a “major hoop”? It seems as if you have witnessed one or two- will you share an example?

Feb 3, 2010, 10:19am, gomer wrote:

One of the downsides to such a good school as LC is that your faculty become VERY marketable. Other schools will jump through major hoops to land such folks. Good luck to the faculty/staff who are moving on!

Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 4, 2010, 10:07am

Wouldn’t you like to be a fly on the wall if you could get Travers and Sumrall in the same room to discuss their experiences as VPAA? Would be interesting. But seriously, does anyone know what has made Travers want to leave after such a short tenure at LC? If it is retirement or better job position then I understand but it does make you wonder.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by gomer on Feb 4, 2010, 10:28am

Let’s use a football example. Once the Saints win the Superbowl, members of the team will see their individual stock rise in the league. Teams will pay a premium even for role players. Stars on the squad will now command super star bucks. This is one of the reasons it is so hard for teams to repeat as Superbowl champs.

While other schools in the area are cutting programs and laying off faculty, LC is growing. Faculty play a vital role in any college. Thus, they receive will earned recognition when things go well. Schools are willing to pay a premium to attract folks with a proven track record.

Many faculty have chosen to remain at the school and continue building. Some have elected to explore what lies behind door number two. I have no doubt they will make their new schools VERY happy!


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 4, 2010, 12:31pm

But my question about Travers still remains unanswered.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by gomer on Feb 4, 2010, 2:01pm

I don’t feel comfortable/that it is my place to comment on a specific member of the faculty. That being said, his contact information is avalible on the school website. Send him an email, and let him tell you directly. This is more productive than hearsay.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by expatriot on Feb 4, 2010, 2:42pm

Gomer:

What do they put in that kool-aid? Someone who leaves after only a few years (and all of the names mentioned have only been there a few years, or I would know who they are) either discovered when they got there that this was not the place for them, or went in with the notion that they were taking this job until something better came along.

Your football reference is ridiculous. The rest of the world doesn’t work on the free-agent model. People aren’t looking to move around every two or three years to the next great payday the way they do in the NFL. Most people put down roots in a community and stay awhile, if they are happy. Sure, money can be a motivating factor — and heaven knows it would be hard to offer less than LC — but as someone mentioned above, people usually don’t leave a place where they are happy.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by elijah on Feb 4, 2010, 11:40pm

While there were several important and common factors in the decisions of Sumrall and Travers, they were not identical. The thing that is important is that LC attracted and lost two experienced, respected Christian administrators in 5 years. That is strongly suggestive of some major problem (s).Sumrall has never moved very often so it is very unusual for him to leave after three years. I know a bit of the two situations and will post some more details later.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 5, 2010, 8:41am

Thank you very much, Elijah! I think we will all be very interested to read and understand more about the situation that is currently going on at LC. We look forward to your input.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 8, 2010, 4:23pm

Why is Alan O’Dell leaving? I would think with all the developments in the TEACH program, etc., that he would be staying. Just curious. And who is now chair of Christian studies?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 10, 2010, 9:06am

I see that there are now two openings in the Biology Department. Who is leaving from there?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by elijah on Feb 10, 2010, 6:08pm

I said I would say more about why I think certain people have left LC. I want to be very careful and not attempt to speak for those who have left but several of them share at least one common characteristic. So let’s ask the question, “What has been the emphasis at LC in the last five years”? Clearly it has been adding new programs with little evidence of a commitment to support or improve existing programs. Think of the long list of announcements, most of which, by the way, never happened.

1. Law school-nothing in 2.5 years
2. Program in France-dead
3. Counseling program-dead
4. On line programs-little or nothing
5. Allied health programs-partial success
6. Medical school-too new to know but……….
7. MAT-very successful
8. Film Institute

The state grants did fund a major improvement in computer technology on campus and to expand the nursing program. But, he library is in bad shape. The science building is very dated and dreary. English Village is about to fall down. Other dorms are in very bad shape. Add to this the decision to borrow money to build a football stadium. The answer to the question of priorities is obvious and while the decision of each of those who left would be slightly different, there is a common theme.

They all came to LC because they wanted to be a part of building a college with a solid Christian commitment and a commitment to academic excellence. They don’t like what is happening and they don’t want to be a part of the LC that they see in the future. Again, the situation is not this simple. There are other important issues but this is definitely one that is readily evident. 😥 😥


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by gomer on Feb 10, 2010, 7:57pm

[quote author=elijah board=general thread=122 post=4049 time

They all came to LC because they wanted to be a part of building a college with a solid Christian commitment and a commitment to academic excellence. They don’t like what is happening and they don’t want to be a part of the LC that they see in the future. Again, the situation is not this simple. There are other important issues but this is definitely one that is readily evident. 😥 :'([/quote]

Thanks for the grunt work! Must have taken some guts to approach EACH of the departing folks and gotten their reason for leaving…


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by newschool on Feb 10, 2010, 9:26pm

As a former “new” faculty member I agree with Elijah. I don’t have the same venom toward the school as some of others who have been on this board, but the current direction of the school is not good for its future.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by notdeadyet on Feb 11, 2010, 2:33pm

Learned: I wanted to remark on your last post because I think it needs clarification.

First, I would say that doing things in the name of a return to the Bible should never be allowed to justify bad behavior. Although there may be those who have done hurtful things in the name of Christ, that does not mean that conservative Christians uniformly endorse the “ends justify the means” ideology.

Second, I think it is erroneous to imply that a “return to the Bible” is the cause for lowered academic credibility and/or success. If LC does not rank where it once did it is not merely because there was a return to the bible.

Third, I would say that it seems extremely certain that none of the new faculty are leaving LC because of its commitment to the bible. Notice that in Elijah’s list of reasons, not one of them was because of LC’s renewed interest in a distinctively Christian liberal arts education. In fact, it was the opposite. LC drew in many promising new faculty members who came precisely because of it’s Christian commitments.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by notdeadyet on Feb 11, 2010, 6:35pm

Thanks for your response, Learned. I mainly wanted to emphasize a point with my last post. That point is any perceived lack of academic excellence is not caused by the current faculty or the beliefs that they maintain.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 12, 2010, 8:29am

I am curious. Notdeadyet, where do you see the fault lying with any “perceived lack of academic excellence” at the college? And can you tell us how the more traditional departments are doing? We never hear anything in the news about the English department or History or Social Work or departments such as those. Where is the excellence in the traditional liberal arts these days at LC?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by gomer on Feb 12, 2010, 9:25am

The spotlight in higher ed these days is on programs that bring money to the school. The programs that are grant funded (sciences, nursing, business) get the attention. There is less grant money out there for folks to critique Lord Jim for the 17th time.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 12, 2010, 10:44am

Should money be the only issue in encouraging academic excellence? I simply want to know what the departments I mentioned are now encouraged in their intellectual pursuits; or at least it appears to be this way? Where are the annoucements of graduates from those areas going on to great graduate schools or achieving various honors, etc.? What are the professors doing in those areas in regards to their own academic pursuits? That is my inquiry.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 13, 2010, 8:23am

In regards to the lawschool, how large is the pre-law program at LC these days? It was large under Thomas Howell but I don’t even know who is in charge currently nor have I heard of any statistics as to the number of pre-law majors. What is the college doing to build up its own base of students for a lawschool?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by beyond on Feb 15, 2010, 10:02pm

Gomer- are you then implying strongly that LC is turning away from the traditional liberal arts education it has offered and is now in search of grant money/programs that will bring such a spotlight to the school?
If what we hear is true that LC is seriously hurting financially it would make sense.

Feb 12, 2010, 9:25am, gomer wrote:

The spotlight in higher ed these days is on programs that bring money to the school. The programs that are grant funded (sciences, nursing, business) get the attention. There is less grant money out there for folks to critique Lord Jim for the 17th time.

Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by beyond on Feb 15, 2010, 10:17pm

Wow, there you go again, gomer.
From what I’ve heard from people close to LC: elijah is dead on.
It’s a shame that those of you in the administration cannot see it. That bodes very badly for LC, I’m afraid.

Feb 10, 2010, 7:57pm, gomer wrote:

[quote author=elijah board=general thread=122 post=4049 time  

They all came to LC because they wanted to be a part of building a college with a solid Christian commitment and a commitment to academic excellence. They don’t like what is happening and they don’t want to be a part of the LC that they see in the future. Again, the situation is not this simple. There are other important issues but this is definitely one that is readily evident. 😥 😥

 

Thanks for the grunt work! Must have taken some guts to approach EACH of the departing folks and gotten their reason for leaving…[/quote]


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 16, 2010, 9:00am

How serious has the financial situation become at LC? Is that one of the reasons some professors are leaving?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on Feb 16, 2010, 9:06am

By the way, how are some of the remaining “old LC” professors doing at the college these days; Jones, Pierson, Warren, Purdy?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by beyond on Mar 2, 2010, 11:14am

From what I gather, perhaps the most appropriate question would be” How serious have the professors own financial situations become and is that why many are leaving or seeking to leave?”

Feb 16, 2010, 9:00am, jericho wrote:

How serious has the financial situation become at LC? Is that one of the reasons some professors are leaving?

Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pennstatefan on May 4, 2010, 1:08pm

Peirson is leaving to go to Union University. Students were informed weeks ago. The rumor mill says that there are several others who are planning to leave and many who are looking/interviewing/etc.


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by pilgrim on May 4, 2010, 8:27pm

I have heard that a new academic vp has been named. Anyone know who it is?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by jericho on May 5, 2010, 3:56pm

Why is Peirson leaving? Anybody hear any news on that front? Who is the new academic vp and where is he from?


Re: Where have the professors gone.
Post by bigleague on Dec 12, 2010, 5:11pm

Bump

Advertisements

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: